ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:
The Democratic National Convention wraps up today with a speech from Vice President Kamala Harris, accepting her party's nomination to be president. All this week, we've been talking with Democratic strategists and party leaders. And so to get a sense of how this event looks to campaign veterans on the other side of the aisle, we've invited Scott Jennings to speak with us. He worked in the George W. Bush White House and is now a Republican strategist and CNN commentator. Good to have you here in Chicago.
SCOTT JENNINGS: Thanks. Good to see you, Ari.
SHAPIRO: Well, with one night to go, do you think the Democrats so far have accomplished what they set out to do?
JENNINGS: Well, I guess it depends on what your goals are. I mean, I think party conventions are largely designed to organize and energize the faithful - right? - 'cause that's the principal issue. And I think they did that with the Obamas. I mean, I said on the air the other night - we had Hulkamania at Republicans. They have Obamamania (ph). And everybody was excited about, you know, the luminaries in their party. So there's no doubt. I mean, even Bill Clinton last night said, you know, we're going to leave here with a sense of relief, you know, off of our shoulders. Well, the relief was, of course, getting rid of Biden and putting in Harris. So I think the Democrats are largely excited about the chance to win 'cause I think, before, they thought the game was over. I mean, they didn't think they had a chance to win. Now they do.
SHAPIRO: You're saying chance to win. They still see themselves, or at least are describing themselves, as underdogs. Is that how you see it?
JENNINGS: I don't know. I think it's a real 50-50 race. I mean, I think this. I think Trump is still in good shape in the swing states. I mean, obviously, the movement for her nationally is real. But in the swing states, I think she's - Trump still looks pretty good.
SHAPIRO: So tell us about one moment this week that you thought the Democrats could've taken advantage of something that they might have missed.
JENNINGS: Taken advantage of - well, I thought they could have handled Monday night a little better. It felt like...
SHAPIRO: That was when Biden spoke, yeah.
JENNINGS: Yeah. And it was very late. And it felt like they took what was supposed to be his Thursday night and they stapled it to what was her Monday night. And then it was sort of a Frankenstein that got loose from the barn and ran around here...
SHAPIRO: (Laughter).
JENNINGS: ...Until well after midnight in Chicago. So I thought that that could have been handled better.
But the best thing they did was Tuesday - not just because of the Obamas...
SHAPIRO: Yeah, I was just going to ask a moment that you were jealous of...
JENNINGS: Oh.
SHAPIRO: ...That you were jealous of - that you thought, I wish we had done that at the RNC.
JENNINGS: You know, I was like, man, they figured it out. They put the roll call to music. And not only did they have individual songs for the states, but then they had Lil Jon come out. And I was up there with Van Jones. He was so moved. He was - he looked like Gregory Hines up there, dancing around. He was so excited about it (laughter).
SHAPIRO: So you're talking about energy and...
JENNINGS: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: ...Ginning up the base. But why does that ultimately matter in the context of a hard-fought election in a closely divided country?
JENNINGS: Well, you have to get people to show up. And I think, before Harris, that was a big problem. There were just people who just weren't going to show up. They didn't want the choice. They didn't like the choice - you know, overwhelming number of Democrats didn't want Biden to run again in the first place. So you really have a movement of a party that was not really excited about having to do this slog. And now it's like, hey, not only do we have a different person, but we're in the game, and we have a chance to win.
SHAPIRO: I also noticed a contrast at this convention from the 2016 message of, when they go low, we go high. This year, former President Obama even made a joke about what he called Trump's weird obsession with crowd sizes with a hand gesture.
JENNINGS: Yeah - in his hand gesture, yeah.
SHAPIRO: There was a lot of taunting and mockery, which are often some of Trump's own favorite tactics. What do you think of that strategy from Democrats?
JENNINGS: Well, I think they are trying to be very sharp and hard-edged. I think it's a land of wolves, right? I mean, you know, our politics is - I mean, even though Obama was trying to appeal, I think, to reducing the polarization, as you pointed out, he also made one of the lowest-brow jokes here. And our politics right now is high anxiety and high emotional attachment to the idea that - not just that your side is the best, but that the other side is the absolute worst. And so you see those kinds of devices, I think, in both parties right now. And it's an appeal to energy. It's an appeal to sustained enthusiasm. You have to keep it going. And I think that's part of it - maybe unfortunately, but it's part of it.
SHAPIRO: We've also been covering this week the counterprogramming, as Trump and Vance have spent the week campaigning in swing states. Do you think their messaging this week has resonated beyond their base enough to blunt the momentum of the Harris campaign?
JENNINGS: You know, I have seen a little bit of what they've done. I think it's really hard to break through during the other party's convention. I mean, all the networks are here. It's wall-to-wall coverage. We're watching speeches. We're listening to music. And then you get a little bit of a news hit on the other side. So I really don't think it is. I think what they've done is fine, but I don't know that it's really broken through. Now, the race could be changed tomorrow if RFK, in Arizona, ends up dropping out and endorsing Trump, and that would be a big boost for him. And then...
SHAPIRO: Do you think it really would, though?
JENNINGS: I think about half of what he's got left would probably be Trump supporters. I think about a quarter - I'm just kind of basing this off some polling I read about - about a quarter probably Harris, and some of them probably wouldn't vote. If you think it's really close, then a few thousand people here and there could be of some benefit to you.
The one missed opportunity for the Democrats this week, in my opinion - and maybe Harris gets to it tonight - is just the substance. Like, what are you going to do when you're the...
SHAPIRO: Yeah.
JENNINGS: ...President? There's been a lot of talk about joy and vibes and very little talk about what she would do in the White House. To me, that's where the Republicans should probably countermessage it the most. You had a blank canvas, and you didn't paint on it.
SHAPIRO: So in our last 30 seconds, any convention is going to have a certain sugar-high quality...
JENNINGS: Yeah.
SHAPIRO: ...But Republicans have argued that the entire Harris enthusiasm is a sugar high. Do you buy that, or do you think this is a real threat to the Trump campaign?
JENNINGS: Well, the part that's not a sugar high is the consolidation of the base. I mean, it's obvious Democrats have come home. I don't know that they've attracted any swing voters this week. To me, the next big test of this is September the 10...
SHAPIRO: The debate.
JENNINGS: ...When we get to the debate. And if Donald Trump shows up focused, it'll be one thing. And if he doesn't, it'll be a mess.
SHAPIRO: Republican strategist and CNN commentator, Scott Jennings. Thank you.
JENNINGS: Thanks, Ari. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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