SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
Ben Gottlieb isn't doing very well. In the new film "Between The Temples," he's a cantor at a synagogue in upstate New York, but he can't - or won't - sing. He's been widowed. He's back living with his mothers, and one night, he finds himself alone at a bar, encountering someone from long ago.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BETWEEN THE TEMPLES")
CAROL KANE: (As Carla) Do you know that I taught music for 42 years, until they kicked me out of there last summer? [Expletive]. Forty-two years.
JASON SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Mrs. O'Connor.
KANE: (As Carla) Wait, do I know you?
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Ben. Ben Gottlieb. Benjamin Gottlieb. Little Benny, Coolidge Elementary. You were my music teacher. Little Benny.
KANE: (As Carla, laughing) Little Benny.
SIMON: Jason Schwartzman is Ben, Little Benny. Carol Kane is Carla Kessler-O'Connor. Indeed, Carol Kane, the Academy Award nominee for "Hester Street," who won raves in "Dog Day Afternoon," "The Princess Bride" and "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt." She joins us now from New York. Thank you so much for being with us.
KANE: Oh, it's a treat. I love your station. I - when I used to live in LA and be in the car, your station saved my life.
SIMON: Aww. Well, thank you. Mrs. O'Connor makes a fairly unusual proposal...
KANE: (Laughter).
SIMON: ...To Ben. She says she wants to get bat mitzvahed. Why?
KANE: OK, because - I'm going to speak as Carla, Mrs. O'Connor - because I always wanted to be bat mitzvahed, but my parents wouldn't let me. I was a red diaper baby. They didn't believe in it.
SIMON: Red diaper baby we should explain. Parents had some alleged communist associations.
KANE: Communist ties, yeah.
SIMON: Yeah.
KANE: Anyway, and then I got married young, and my husband, who was not Jewish, he didn't want me to ever get bat mitzvahed or be part of my faith, and so I never got the chance. And then my husband and my parents are gone, and then I decide, I want to go through with it. It's something that's been meaningful to me since I was young, and I never did it, and I'm seeking the help of Ben, the cantor at my temple - that's Jason Schwartzman, who's a genius - to teach me.
SIMON: He's a little skeptical at first, isn't he, the cantor?
KANE: OK, Ben - let me tell you this. He's depressed (laughter), so he really just doesn't want to do it. He doesn't want to do anything that would take him out of his dark shell, and I just sort of insist on it, and then a relationship that becomes important to the two of us ensues.
SIMON: You know, it's easy to dismiss seniors in films and popular...
KANE: Yeah.
SIMON: ...Culture as just gray...
KANE: Oh, God, yes.
SIMON: ...Crotchety, out of touch. What did you want to put into Carla?
KANE: OK, I'm a senior, right? Definitely. But I don't know I'm a senior. I mean, I know chronologically, and because I have a senior MetroCard, which is quite cool...
SIMON: (Laughter).
KANE: ...Because I have a pretty picture on it, and I get a nice break in the price, but I don't feel like a senior. I feel like I'm just beginning my life or just learning how to live.
SIMON: Yeah.
KANE: My mother, Joy Kane - she moved to Paris, France, when she was 55, lived in a little room with no toilet, no bath, so she was very much a role model for me in this movie. And, you know, you'd be surprised - there are a lot of, quote-unquote, "seniors" who start a rebirth. My mother said she thought of her hotel room as a crib.
SIMON: Wow. Let me ask you about one of my favorite scenes. Cantor Ben is trying to help his old music teacher with Hebrew pronunciation. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "BETWEEN THE TEMPLES")
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) That chuh sound?
KANE: (As Carla) Chuh.
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) It's almost like - I would, you know...
KANE: (As Carla, speaking in Hebrew).
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Don't overdo it.
KANE: (As Carla, speaking in Hebrew).
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Do you literally have popcorn stuck in your throat?
KANE: (As Carla, laughing) Yes.
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Yes? Is that how you - how do you get it out? Let me hear you get it out.
KANE: (As Carla, clearing throat).
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Yeah. Ugh.
KANE: (As Carla, laughing).
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Great.
KANE: (As Carla, speaking in Hebrew).
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) More popcorn.
KANE: (As Carla) Chuh.
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Yeah. Put some butter on the popcorn.
KANE: (As Carla) Chuh.
SCHWARTZMAN: (As Ben) Yeah. Butter flavor.
(LAUGHTER)
KANE: That's so funny.
SIMON: It's very funny. What do you think Ben and Carla begin to see each other, despite, or maybe even because of, the age difference?
KANE: There's a kind of rawness in both of us, needing help to climb out of a hole into something new, into some hope, and I think that we extend a hand to each other. It's unexpected, and it's not smooth, but I think that something happens where we see that we can count on each other, and be safe together. And I don't think either of us have felt safe for quite a while.
SIMON: Not giving too much away, there ultimately is a bat mitzvah.
KANE: Yeah.
SIMON: And Ben says, welcome to the next part of your life...
KANE: Yeah.
SIMON: ...From here on out.
KANE: Isn't that something? From here and out, you can just do whatever you want to do?
SIMON: Yeah. Can we stand to hear that at any age?
KANE: Well, you know, we can more than stand to hear that. We need to hear that. Gosh, we just need to hear that over and over to give us strength. Do what you want to do. Do what is you. Do what makes you you, and do it with love and honesty.
SIMON: We speak on a day when I gather you lost a friend recently, Gena Rowlands.
KANE: I did, my beautiful Gena. She was a genius, brilliant actress and a great person.
SIMON: I've got to - I've found that the hardest part of growing up and growing older, saying goodbye to friends.
KANE: Oh, forget it. It's just impossible.
SIMON: Yeah.
KANE: Have you lost a lot of people?
SIMON: Yeah, you know, I have.
KANE: Yeah.
SIMON: And, for some reason, in recent months.
KANE: Is it horrible for me to ask you how old you are?
SIMON: You and I are the same age.
KANE: OK. So we've lost a bunch of people. God, it's not good - and animals for me, too. Animals for you?
SIMON: Animals also, absolutely.
KANE: Yeah.
SIMON: And that's...
KANE: That's so rough.
SIMON: That's very hard. You know, they're members of our family.
KANE: So hard, but on the other hand, what they say, you know - if you don't love, I guess you don't suffer the pain of loss, but if you don't love deeply, then what's the point of being here?
SIMON: Yeah. I can't say goodbye to you today without a nod to "The Princess Bride."
KANE: (Laughter) Thank you.
SIMON: Does anyone ever recognize you and go, have fun storming the castle?
KANE: Once in a while.
SIMON: (Laughter).
KANE: Once in a while. Pretty cool, right? How much fun can a girl have?
SIMON: Yeah. Well, thank you for speaking with us.
KANE: Thank you. I hope everybody enjoys this movie. I have to say, I think it's lovely.
SIMON: Carol Kane joining us from New York. Nathan Silver is the director of her new film, "Between The Temples," in theaters now. Thank you so much for being with us.
KANE: Thank you. Take care.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOHN FAHEY'S "ORINDA-MORAGA") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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