FARAI CHIDEYA, host:

Affirmative action has been a lightning rod in the U.S. for years, but that's not stopping Brazil from trying it.

(Soundbite of street protest)

CHIDEYA: That's a protest for racial equality in Brazil. In the past, the elite University of Brasilia has admitted only the wealthiest and widest of the country's upper crust. Now, the schools decided that up to 20 percent of its student body should be made up of black or mixed race students.

Adam Stepan is a documentary filmmaker. And in "Brazil in Black and White," he follows five students of varying backgrounds, all of them trying to earn a place at the prestigious university.

Adam, Welcome.

Mr. ADAM STEPAN (Director, "Brazil in Black and White"): I'm very happy to be here.

CHIDEYA: So you have a scene that, in some ways, is almost like a paper bag test where the girls have to be photographed against the white background to see if they're black enough. How did you feel filming that scene?

Mr. STEPAN: Well, that's definitely one of the most controversial aspects of the way that they've tried to implement affirmative action at the University of Brasilia. And it's something that, obviously, it's a tricky situation. Brazil is probably the world's most racially mixed country in for - it's got a long history of seeing itself as a racial democracy where people of various races inter-marry(ph) and socialize in a way that perhaps you didn't have here in the States.

What they've done there is saying that we will have a secret committee that would actually photograph people and decide who's black. And that's, obviously, an uncomfortable thing. It was decided by a committee made up of professors, people from black rights movements in Brazil. So it's a - tricky, it's a -definitely, a tricky thing.

CHIDEYA: So you follow five young people seeking admission to the university. You follow four girls. Iolanda looks mestizo or what we might call biracial or multiracial, but she doesn't believe in affirmative action. Here's a little bit of her story.

(Soundbite of film, "Brazil in Black and White")

IOLANDA DOS SANTOS (Student): (Through translator) I always say I'm black. I accept that. These days, some people try to take advantage of being black. They act like victims to get what they want. I'm against that.

Mr. STEPAN: Well, Iolanda was - is just an amazing person. We - when we set out to do this film, we knew that there are so many complex issues. We figured, what we should really do is try to find some really interesting intelligent, young people who are in the middle of all this and whose stories can help us get a sense of what it means to be young in Brazil right now. And Iolanda was someone who just struck us from the first time we met her as someone who is young but has a lot of definitive ideas in her head and has thought about a lot of things in the way that, you know, most young people haven't.

And - so she's - it's tricky. She's actually, like you noticed, against the whole quote, "idea." And that - I think, again, it has a lot to do with this whole Brazilian tradition of, in a way, resisting classifying people racially. And it's one of the things that Brazil is struggling with. How can you preserve this idea that people shouldn't be classified and yet deal with some very major imbalances in society.

(Soundbite of film, "Brazil in Black and White")

RAFAEL MENDES (Student): (Through translator) I'm going to do civil engineering. I want to make buildings. My parents work in this area, too, so I'd like to do it too.

CHIDEYA: Rafael.

Mr. STEPAN: Rafael is a young man from one of Brasilia's wealthier families. He lives in an area that has one of the highest per capita incomes in the world, a small part outside of Brasilia where a lot of diplomats and high government officials live. And he's someone who, historically, would be on a sort of fast track to get into the university. His parents are in a engineering firm and he's looking to follow in their footsteps. He lives in a gated community, a very large mansion outside the town and he has a chauffer who takes him across town to his private school.

CHIDEYA: So you've talked to Senator Paulo Paim and he is the only self-identified black person in the Brazilian congress, black Senator.

Senator PAULO PAIM (Brazilian Congress): (Through translator) The anti-quota people don't want black in universities where they can prepare themselves to compete in the job market on an equal footing with whites. That's the bottom line. The rest is a bunch of hot air.

CHIDEYA: He's the main force behind this move towards affirmative action. And what kind of person is he? You know, seems like he's a maverick. And is he getting help from U.S. civil rights groups?

Mr. STEPAN: Well, Senator Paim is a really interesting person. He's actually from the southern part of Brazil state that doesn't have a big Afro-Brazilian population, which makes the fact that he's managed to get elected and make so many things happen, even more remarkable. He's someone who's, I think, got a real strong vision of where he'd like to go with this whole debate and I think he also, like a lot of Brazilians who are trying to sort of move things in Brazil.

A big frame of reference is the United States. They look at the civil rights movement here. They look at where American blacks are today. They look at Condoleezza Rice and they say, this is crazy. We're 50 percent of the population. We should - there's no way we should only be three or 4 percent of people in the university.

And so I think he's - they look at that whole civil rights struggle in the U.S. and have been smart about looking at what works and what doesn't, and working really hard to make things happen.

CHIDEYA: Now, there's how Brazil has learned from the U.S. civil rights struggle. But what can we learn in the U.S. from Brazil?

Mr. STEPAN: One lesson that I certainly took away from the whole experience is that affirmative action works. I mean it's - if you look at where the U.S. is today and where it was 40 years ago, and you look at a country like Brazil that hasn't taken those measures, it's impression how - what - how much the U.S. hasn't transformed even though there's a lot to do.

It's important that we recognize that and then - and it wasn't an easy thing to do. It wasn't - it was full of conflict and battles, but that's one lesson. I think also as you look forward, there's a good chance that maybe U.S. in 10 or 20 years might look a little bit like Brazil nowadays. At least, I hope so in terms of having more multi-racial couples, having more people who are from different parts of the world who are mixing and having kids together.

So I think that you have - that'll hopefully happen but that won't mean that you can't stop thinking about affirmative action, you can't stop thinking about making things change for the better.

CHIDEYA: So it seems to me that with your background, an Irish-American married to an Afro-Brazilian, this must mean a lot to you personally. How did you come to this project in terms of your emotions and your self and your story?

Mr. STEPAN: When I first arrived in Brazil, I actually lived in Brazil as a little baby and I came back in my late 20's. One of the things that really struck you is the fact that in Brazil you had this, I guess, social, easy interaction between different races. But the fact that there were these big issues - and race wasn't being debated in Brazil. It wasn't something that people talked about in the same way they talked about it in the States. And it wasn't a political issue.

So I think that that's exciting to be able to document that moment. On a personal level, I do, yeah, I have two kids who are half Irish-American half Afro-Brazilian, and right now, they're little girls. They're four and three. I don't think that - maybe this stuff has ever entered their head and, pardon me, says(ph), I hope it never - they'd never have to be worry about it. But I also think it's a positive thing that people are worrying about it and thinking about it. And, you know, we - it takes a lot of all the stuff, takes a lot of work and a lot of fine-tuning.

CHIDEYA; Well, Adam, thanks for sharing your stories with us.

Mr. STEPAN: Well, thanks for having me, Farai.

CHIDEYA: Adam Stepan is a documentary filmmaker and his latest film, "Brazil in Black and White," is part of PBS's "Wide Angle" series. It premiers tonight.

(Soundbite of music)

CHIDEYA: That's our show for today. And thank you for sharing your time with us.

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