MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:

And now, another perspective from Ron Martinelli. He is a retired detective and police officer, and he testifies as an expert on police procedure. He served in the San Jose Police Department for some 25 years. He believes that the Black Lives Matter movement is encouraging anti-police violence. He's with us now. Mr. Martinelli, thank you so much for speaking with us.

RON MARTINELLI: Happy to be with you.

MARTIN: Do you believe that there is a war against the police, and if so, who is waging it?

MARTINELLI: I absolutely believe that there is a war on police. There are a number of factions that are waging the war on police, and one of the leading factions is the Black Lives Matter movement.

MARTIN: And what is the nature of this war?

MARTINELLI: Well, the movement - Black Lives Matter movement - has four basic objectives with respect to diminishing law enforcement. They want to disenfranchise the law enforcement from the community. They want to defund law enforcement. They want to diminish their involvement in the community and their stature, and they want to basically dissolve law enforcement.

And the reason is because police officers are protectors of the rule of the law, and the Black Lives Matter movement is a black nationalist revolutionary Marxist movement that is tied into a much larger international movement referred to as One World One Struggle.

MARTIN: Have you ever actually interviewed anybody connected to the Black Lives Matter movement - their objectives?

MARTINELLI: Yes, I have.

MARTIN: Like, name one.

MARTINELLI: I have emailed members of the movement and have listened to their responses. I've had dialogue with them. And I think the most telling things are the research we do where we pulled up the actual videos of the founders of the movement going out and giving speeches and talks to various community groups.

MARTIN: So tell me how you then extrapolate from that that you think that there is a war on police.

MARTINELLI: Well, the Black Lives Matter movement has done everything consistent with having a war on police. The rhetoric is violent. You know, the most recent killings - the killer stated that part of the reason that he was inflamed enough to kill the police officers was because of the rhetoric from the Black Lives Matter movement.

MARTIN: So what should people do who object to the way the police have conducted themselves in their communities? What should they do in your view?

MARTINELLI: Well, they have a constitutional right to protest and to protest peacefully in the streets, and to work with their legislators, work with their leaders to bring about, you know, effective change in policing. I think we need to keep in mind - we have problems in law enforcement brought about by the community, such as drug involvement, gang involvement, weapons violations.

Do we need to continue to evolve forward? Absolutely. But the community also needs to bear responsibility for their actions. And I think everybody that is reasonably thinking and informed understands that.

MARTIN: Ron Martinelli is a former police officer, a police detective. He served some 25 years in the San Jose Police Department. He now testifies as an expert witness on police procedure in cases around the country. He was kind enough to join us via Skype from Mexico. Mr. Martinelli, thank you so much for speaking with us.

MARTINELLI: Thank you for having me on. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.