Kathleen Cahill | WYPR

Kathleen Cahill

Producer, Midday

Kathleen is a producer for Midday With Tom Hall.  Previously, she was a producer for Maryland Morning and, before that,  a freelance radio reporter  for the WYPR newsroom.  She was for many years an editor at The Washington Post – on the Foreign Desk;  at Outlook  (The Post’s Sunday commentary section) and as a special projects editor for the Post’s Financial Desk.

Kathleen lived in Turkey for a couple of years in the ‘90s as Time Magazine’s stringer for the region and as deputy editor of  Dateline Turkey, an English-language weekly newspaper based in Istanbul.   (Sadly, her Turkish is rusty now, but if you know a few words, please stop by and say merhaba.)Early in her career, Kathleen was a frequent contributor to CFO, The Economist’s monthly magazine for financial executives, and a staff writer for Bostonia Magazine.

She is a graduate of Boston University and also attended University College Dublin, in Ireland.  She was a visiting media fellow at Duke University’s DeWitt Wallace Center for Journalism and Democracy and attended the wonderful Stanford Publishing Course.   She is the editor of two books.

Courtesy of John Waters

Tom's guest for the hour is John Waters. He’s a filmmaker, actor, and writer -- not necessarily in that order. Early in his career, Waters established himself as an enfant terrible who was affectionately dubbed the "King of Sleaze." His filmography spans 40 years and 16 films, some of which are cult classics, while others, like Hairspray, are revered as popular icons.

John Waters is also the author of eight books, including Role Models, a collection of essays of people who have shaped his life in important ways; Carsick, his journal of a hitchhiking trip from Baltimore to San Francisco; and Make Trouble, adopted from a speech he delivered at the Rhode Island School of Design.

What is perhaps less well known by the general public  is that John Waters is also a prolific and insightful visual artist. On Sunday, the Baltimore Museum of Art will open a major retrospective of John’s work, in a show that includes 160 examples of art that show Waters to be a trenchant observer and analyst of popular culture. The show is called Indecent Exposure.  John and BMA curator Kristen Hileman will have a public conversation about the exhibition on the first of November.  And on Friday night, Nov. 9, the BMA will screen 18 hours of John Waters movies. There will be prizes for folks who complete the entire Waters film marathon.

Baltimore is also one of the stops on the John Waters Christmas tour this season. You can catch “A John Waters Christmas” at the Baltimore Soundstage on Dec. 19.

We livestreamed this conversation.  To see the video, click here. 

Today we continue our series of Conversations with the Candidates with three people who will be on the ballot in November -- who are neither Democrats nor Republicans.

The Democracy Fund Voter Study Group reports that for the first time in the last 25 years, 2/3 of Americans see the need for a third party. This support for alternatives to Democrats and Republicans grows out of dissatisfaction with what many see as a dysfunctional two party system, but as to which third party that should be, or if there should be more than one, there is much less consensus. Today, we’ll talk to an Independent, a Libertarian and a member of the Green Party about the reasons behind their candidacies, and their views on the future of third parties moving forward.

Photo by Annie Leibovitz

Tom's guest for the hour is Pulitzer Prize-winning author and historian Doris Kearns Goodwin.

In her new book on presidential character, Leadership in Turbulent TimesGoodwin asks: Do leaders shape the times or do the times summon their leaders? Goodwin argues persuasively that while great presidents were highly ambitious and driven to succeed, they also overcame devastating personal setbacks to lead the country through the most difficult challenges our republic has ever faced.

Goodwin chronicles Lincoln’s struggles with depression and his handling of the Civil War. She explores how Theodore Roosevelt’s leadership philosophy changed after his young wife and his mother died on the same day, and how he went on to broker a settlement in a potentially crippling coal strike. She writes of Franklin Roosevelt’s struggle with polio, and his decisive moves to end the Depression and win World War II.

Photo courtesy of the Ben Jealous campaign

Today on Midday, we continue our series of Conversations with the Candidates.

Tom's guest for the hour is Ben Jealous, the Democratic nominee for Governor of Maryland. He was one of nine Democrats on the ballot in the primary last June. He beat the crowded field handily with 40% of the vote, defying pollsters and pundits, many of whom had predicted a win by Prince George’s County Executive Rushern Baker.

In the end, Mr. Jealous bested Mr. Baker by nearly 10 points. Ben Jealous and his running mate Susan Turnbull, the former chair of the Maryland Democratic Party, are now challenging Republican Gov. Larry Hogan and Lt. Gov Boyd Rutherford. 

Photo courtesy the Olszewski campaign

Today we continue our series of Conversations with the Candidates with former state delegate John Olszewski, Jr., the Democratic nominee for Baltimore County Executive. He won a nail-biter primary, emerging as the winner in a four person race by just 17 votes.

Mr. Olszewski, also known as "Johnny O," is running against Republican Al Redmer Jr., the state insurance commissioner in the upcoming general election. Olszewski is a lifelong resident of Dundalk. A graduate of Sparrows Point High School and Goucher College, he holds a PhD. in Public Policy from UMBC. He was just 23 years old when he was elected to the Maryland House of Delegates, where he served for nine years. He taught in County schools for seven years. 

We live-streamed this conversation on the WYPR Facebook page.  If you missed that video, check it out here.   The general election takes place on Tuesday, November 6. Early voting begins on October 25. Find out how to register to vote – and where to vote – here.  

It's Midday on Education: School children in Baltimore City and around the state returned to their classrooms last week.  Some kids in the City and in Baltimore County couldn’t go to school, or they were dismissed early on a few days because their classrooms weren’t air conditioned.  Others formed the first classes in brand new, state of the art buildings, constructed under the 21st Century Schools program.

The budget for the current year did not call for any teacher layoffs.  It did target literacy coaching as a priority, and it does includes some cuts for Charter Schools.  Unlike school systems in some of the adjacent counties, Baltimore City Public Schools has faced shrinking enrollment for many years, a persistent problem that speaks to the larger challenges of the city in attracting and keeping young families.

Declining enrollment, of course, affects funding.  Changing the formula for how schools are funded is one of the mandates of the Kirwan Commission, which is expected to release its long awaited final report this month, or early next month. 

Dr. Sonja Santelises, CEO of Baltimore City Public Schools, joins Tom in Studio A.  This conversation was live-streamed on the WYPR Facebook page.  If you missed that video, check it out here. 

Copyright Epic Photography Jamie Schoenberger

(This program originally aired on October 24, 2017.)

Tom’s guest today is Alice McDermott, the New York Times best-selling author of eight novels. Three of them, After This, At Weddings and Wakes and That Night, were finalists for the Pulitzer Prize. Another novel, Charming Billy, won the National Book Award in 1998.

Her eighth novel, The Ninth Hour, published in 2017 and available in paperback in September 2018, is a profound and moving contemplation on the big issues: love, family, faith, religion, and bringing meaning to one’s life. The story is told with tenderness and compassion, by an artist at the height of her creative and literary powers.

Alice McDermott is the Richard A. Maksey Professor of the Humanities at Johns Hopkins University. 

The author will read from her work at an event at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County, on November 29, 2018 at 6pm.

(This program originally aired on August 9, 2018.)

Today, Tom's guest is Dr. Brit Kirwan, chair of the Commission on Innovation and Excellence in Education, better known as the Kirwan Commission. For the past two years, the commission has been studying the public K-12 education system in our state, and it’s planning to release a series of recommendations as to how the state should re-order its educational priorities, improve accountability, and fund schools. This past January, the commission released a Preliminary Report of its findings.

Dr. Kirwan was the President of the University of Maryland, where he served on the faculty for 34 years, and the Chancellor of the University System of Maryland from 2002-2015. Prior to that, for four years, he served as the president of Ohio State University.

This conversation was livestreamed on WYPR's Facebook page. To see that video, click here.

photo courtesy NASA.gov

Earlier this month (August 1), a special edition of The New York Times Magazine went online, and a few days later hit the newsstands.  The issue contained a single 30,000 word article titled, “Losing Earth: The Decade We Almost Stopped Climate Change.” Penned by NYTMagazine writer-at-large Nathaniel Rich, with grant support from the non-profit Pulitzer Center for Crisis Reporting, and based on 18 months of reporting and over a hundred interviews, it tells the story (along with a gallery of stunning photos and online videos by George Steinmetz) of the decade between 1979-1989 when an international scientific and political consensus first emerged on the causes and dangers of climate change.

In his detailed narrative history, Rich describes how those hopeful efforts nevertheless failed to develop an effective national and international response to what was known to be an impending global catastrophe.

U.S. Department of Education

Guest host Jamyla Krempel sits in for Tom Hall today for a conversation about sexual education. In the era of the “Me Too” movement – with its steady stream of stories about actors, politicians, clergy, executives, people in virtually every profession being accused of sexual assault, is sex ed teaching students about how power can be used to hurt others, and about the importance of consent? Have schools updated their curricula to reflect students’ gender identity and sexual orientation?

Today, Tom's guest is Rudolph S. Chow, the director of Baltimore City’s Department of Public Works, an agency he has led since 2014. 

One of the DPW's many responsibilities is the water system.  And when it comes to water, the department’s reach extends far beyond the city's   615,000 residents, but actually services 1.8 million people in the region. 

The city’s infrastructure is aging, and fragile.  Water main breaks are commonplace.  Sewage overflows into tributaries and even private homes with regularity.  To pay for repairs to the system, the city has levied fees and increased water rates by nearly 30% over the last three years.  As we discussed here on Midday a couple of weeks ago, those fees and rate hikes have made the cost of water prohibitively high for as many as half of city residents. 

The DPW, for the third consecutive year, is offering a ten-week, small-business development course for women and people of color: DPW Small Business Development Program.

We livestreamed this conversation at the WYPR Facebook page.  To see that video, click here. 

Today, Tom's guest is Dr. Brit Kirwan, chair of the Commission on Innovation and Excellence in Education, better known as the Kirwan Commission.  For the past two years, the commission has been studying the public K-12 education system in our state, and it’s planning to release a series of recommendations as to how the state should re-order its educational priorities, improve accountability, and fund schools. This past January, the commission released a Preliminary Report of its findings.

Dr. Kirwan was the President of the University of Maryland, where he served on the faculty for 34 years, and the Chancellor of the University System of Maryland from 2002-2015.  Prior to that, for four years, he served as the president of Ohio State University. 

This conversation was livestreamed on WYPR's Facebook page.  To catch that video, click here.

The Abell Foundation

Recent headlines about juvenile crime being "out of control" seem to capture—and fuel—the perception that the problem is on the rise in Baltimore.  As is so often the case, though, the reality is a bit more complicated.

Researchers at the Abell Foundation set about collecting and analyzing the available data on juvenile crime and arrests in the city to form a clear picture.  The result is a new report called "Fact Check:  A Survey of Available Data on Juvenile Crime in Baltimore City." 

The report finds that overall, juvenile arrests are down in the city -- and down dramatically between 2012 and 2017.  But the report also finds that juvenile arrests for violent crimes are up.   It also asks:  What happens when these juveniles are charged in adult court, compared with juveniles whose cases end up in juvenile court?  How often do these youth reoffend?  And why is there so little publicly available data related to juvenile violent crime, and what should be done about that?

Today, the authors of this new report join Tom in Studio A.   Sheryl Goldstein is vice president of the Abell Foundation.  Katherine McMullen is an analyst and executive assistant to Abell’s senior vice president.

This conversation was livestreamed at the WYPR Facebook page.  To check out the video, click here. 

Today, a special edition of Midday, live from historic Sumner Hall, in Chestertown, on Maryland’s Eastern Shore.  Sumner Hall was built in 1908.  It served as the meeting place for the Charles Sumner Post #25, a Grand Army of the Republic post founded by African American Union Veterans of the Civil War.   For decades, Sumner Hall was the social and cultural hub of Chestertown’s African American community.  

The theme of our show today is “Embracing Change in a Historic Community,” and over the course of the next hour, Tom and his guests will focus on three examples of that change -- in health care, public education, and race relations -- and its impact on the people of Chestertown and Kent County.

It’s Midday on PoliticsThe general election is November 6th, which is 14 weeks from tomorrow. Today, we continue our series of Conversations with the Candidates.  

Tom's guest is Richmond Davis, the Republican nominee for election to the U.S. House of Representatives from Maryland’s 7th District.  He is running against the incumbent, Rep. Elijah Cummings, a Democrat, who has served in Congress since 1996. 

Richmond Davis is a lawyer in private practice in Columbia, admitted to the bar in both Maryland and the District of Columbia. He is a member of the National Academy of Elder Law Attorneys. He has an undergraduate degree in Government and Politics from the University of Maryland and a JD from the Georgetown University Law Center. This is his first run for public office.

Johns Hopkins University

It’s another edition of Midday on Ethics, in which we explore some ethical questions pulled straight from the headlines. Guiding us in that exploration is Dr. Jeffrey Kahn, the Director of the Johns Hopkins Berman Institute of Bioethics. He joins Tom in Studio A from time to time to help us examine how ethicists are framing these very complex questions.

We begin with the story of Jahi McMath, a 13-year -old girl in California who was declared dead in late 2013, after a routine surgery went wrong. Then, last month, 4½ years later, she was declared dead, again, in New Jersey. It’s a tragic story that raises issues about end of life that has pitted the medical profession against people with deeply held religious beliefs. Just like there is no consensus on when life begins; there is also a lack of agreement about when life ends. How do we define death? And who gets to define it?

It’s July, it’s hot, and even with all the recent rain, we’re thirsty.  But for an increasing number of Baltimore households, water -- we’re talking plain old water from the faucet -- is becoming unaffordable. On July 1st, water rates in Baltimore City rose almost 10%, the third big jump in as many years.  In fact, since 2010, the typical Baltimore household’s water and sewer bill has more than doubled. And by 2022, the typical bill is expected to more than triple.  

Some say the steep increases are necessary, because the city MUST invest in expensive infrastructure projects to provide this essential public service.  But an alarming number of families are at risk for losing their homes because they can no longer afford to pay their water bills.

Today, we continue our series of Conversations with the Candidates.  The general election is November 6th, which is 16 weeks from yesterday.

Tom's guest is Anjali Reed Phukan, the Republican nominee for Maryland Comptroller.   She is running against the incumbent, Democrat Peter Franchot, who was first elected as the state’s fiscal chief in 2006.

Ms. Phukan is an auditor for the State of MD.  She is a Certified Public Accountant.  This is her second bid to become the state’s Comptroller.   She ran as a write-in candidate in 2014.  She also ran for the school board in Montgomery Co., where she lived at the time, in 2016.

This conversation was livestreamed on the WYPR Facebook page. Click here to watch the video. 

Note: Imamu Baraka died last week. He is the Good Samaritan whose video of a patient who had just been dumped outside a local hospital went viral last January.  He shared his story on Midday.

Five years ago, Alicia Garza helped create Black Lives Matter. Now, her focus is the Black Futures Lab,  an organization set up to take the pulse of African American communities, build political power for people of color and challenge policymakers.

One of the group’s initiatives is the Black Census -- which aims to provide a better understanding of the diversity of opinion in the Black community, and to use that information to help improve the ways in which those communities are served.   Alicia Garza joins Tom from a studio at the University of California at Berkeley. 

 

Today we continue our Conversation with the Candidates series with guest Allan Kittleman, county executive of Howard County, elected to that position in 2014, and also discuss the future of Old Ellicott City.  On July 30, 2016, Old Ellicott City was ravaged by what was called at the time a once-in-1,000-years flood.  The historic downtown was largely rebuilt. And less than two years later, on May 27 of this year, another deadly flood struck Old Ellicott City -- perhaps even worse than the 2016 flood.  A state of emergency for the historic downtown is still in effect. 

In May of 2015, a year before the first Ellicott City Flood, Gov. Larry Hogan made good on a campaign promise to repeal the law that required nine counties to charge residents and businesses a Stormwater Remediation Fee, to create a dedicated source of funding for stormwater projects.  Mr. Hogan and opponents of the law referred to it as a “rain tax.” 

Allan Kittleman was a vocal supporter of repealing the law.  A year later, a few months before the first flood, Mr. Kittleman proposed a reduction and the eventual repeal of the Stormwater Remediation Fee in Howard County, a proposal that was rejected by the County Council.  Nine days ago, Howard County residents received tax bills that included fees ranging from $15 to $90, depending on the amount of impervious surfaces they have on their property. 

Photo courtesy Floyd Abrams

(This program was originally aired on May 3, 2018)  

Today, a conversation about American exceptionalism when it comes to our cherished tradition of free speech.

Tom’s guest is the acclaimed legal scholar, Floyd Abrams, a distinguished constitutional lawyer who has litigated some of the most consequential 1st Amendment cases of our time, including the Pentagon Papers case and Citizen’s United. He is the author of the 2017 book, “The Soul of the First Amendment,” which is just out in paperback.

Floyd Abrams joins Tom on the line from New York, where he is  a senior partner in the law firm Cahill Gordon & Reindel.

This conversation with Derek Thompson originally aired on May 25, 2018.  

Today, Tom speaks with Derek Thompson, a senior editor at The Atlantic, where he writes about business and technology, and hosts the new podcast Crazy/Genius. He is also the author of Hit Makers: The Science of Popularity in the Age of Distraction.

In his best-selling book,  Thompson takes a scientific approach to understanding why certain things in our culture become "cool," at least for a while, and whether or not there are commonalities between them across creative and cultural disciplines. Thompson examines the hidden psychological and market forces that make a song, a movie or a politician popular, and how those forces are constantly reshaping our cultural landscape.

Courtesy of the Comptroller's Office

Today, another in our series of Conversations with the Candidates.

Tom's guest is Maryland Comptroller Peter Franchot. He’s been the state’s fiscal chief since 2007, after first beating the incumbent, William Donald Schaefer, in the 2006 primary. 

As comptroller, Franchot is a member of powerful Board of Public Works in Annapolis. And he is vice-chair of the State Retirement & Pension System. Franchot is a Democrat who does not always toe the party line. His relationship with the legislative leadership in Annapolis -- fellow Democrats Senate President Thomas V. Mike Miller and House Speaker Michael E. Busch -- has seemed increasingly frayed this year. Franchot does seem to have a close working relationship with Republican Gov. Larry Hogan. Before becoming Maryland’s top fiscal officer, Franchot served in the House of Delegates for two decades, representing the 20th District in Montgomery Co. That district reaches roughly from Takoma Park, north to Colesville.

He has been Maryland’s comptroller for 11 years, and he is seeking a fourth term. His opponent in the November election is a CPA from Worcester County, Republican Anjali Reed Phukan.

This conversation was livestreamed on the WYPR Facebook page. To check out that video, click here.

Flickr Creative Commons

In the end, the race to become the Democratic nominee for governor wasn’t very close. Ben Jealous won every county in Maryland except Prince George’s, the home base of County Executive Rushern Baker, and Calvert County, which Jealous lost by 48 votes.

In Baltimore County, it couldn’t be more close. Three Democrats, former Del. Johnny Olszewski, Jr., Sen. Jim Brochin and County Councilwoman Vicki Almond are within a few hundred votes of each other, in a race that won’t be settled until next week, at the earliest. On the Republican side, Maryland Insurance Commissioner Al Redmer beat Del. Pat McDonough by 10 points. McDonough has said that this will be his last campaign.

Baltimore State’s Attorney Marilyn Mosby won with 50% of the vote in one of the most acrimonious races in this campaign season.

Today: What it all means with Andy Green, the Editorial Page Editor of the Baltimore Sun and Jayne Miller, an award-winning investigative reporter at WBAL Television.

This conversation was livestreamed on WYPR's Facebook page.  To check out that video, click here. 

Ivan Bates Campaign

Tomorrow is Primary Day in Maryland, and here in Baltimore, the race for State’s Attorney features three Democrats who are conducting vigorous campaigns. 

Our original plan was to pause our series of Conversations with the Candidates once early voting had begun.  A week of early voting ended last Thursday.  But given that the race for Baltimore City State’s Attorney is one of the most contentious in the city’s history, we decided to have a conversation with the candidates for that office on this election-Eve. 

The winner of the Democratic primary for State’s Attorney will not face an opponent in November, so the person who will hold the position of the city’s top prosecutor for the next four years will be elected tomorrow. 

The incumbent, Marilyn Mosby, is being challenged by two local attorneys, Ivan Bates and Thiru Vignarajah, who join Tom today in Studio A. 

Ivan Bates has worked as a defense attorney and a city prosecutor.  He worked in the Juvenile Crime Division and later, the Homicide Division, in the City State’s Attorney’s Office.  He is 49 years old.

Thiru Vignarajah is a former city and federal prosecutor.  His tenure in the Baltimore State’s Attorney’s Office included heading the Major Investigations Unit.  He also served as the Deputy Attorney General for Maryland.   Thiru Vignarajah is 41 years old.

ACLU of Maryland

Early Voting began last Thursday and continues through this Thursday. As of today, about 30,000 more people have voted early than had done so at this point in the last election.  Election Day is a week from tomorrow.

Please be sure to vote. Or as the American Civil Liberties Union is fond of saying: Vote like your rights depend on it. Because they do. Indeed, the right to vote is one of the civil liberties at the heart of the ACLUs’ work -- along with the right to free speech, the right to privacy and the right to a fair trial, to name a few.

Today on Midday: a changing of the guard at the Maryland ACLU. Susan Goering joins Tom in Studio A. She has just stepped down after leading the ACLU of MD for 33 years, first as its legal director, and then, since 1996, as the organization’s executive director. Before her tenure at the ACLU Goering was an attorney for the NAACP Legal Defense Fund.

Later in the show, Dana Vickers Shelley joins Tom. She is the Maryland ACLU’s new executive director. She previously held senior positions in public affairs and communications with the Southern Poverty Law Center and the Annie E. Casey Foundation. She was a senior advisor for the 2016 Democratic National Convention, and has advised many nonprofits and foundations on social justice issues and strategic communications. Most recently, she was on the faculty of Morgan State University’s School for Global Journalism and Communication.

This conversation was livestreamed on the WYPR Facebook page. To see that video, click here.

Flickr Creative Commons

Maryland’s primary election is two weeks from today.  Early voting begins on Thursday.  And so, today, we’re talking about voting.

Americans vote at much lower rates than citizens of other advanced democracies.  And while voting is the central tenet in a strong democracy, many states have enacted laws and voter requirements in recent years that actually make it harder to vote. What can be done to encourage and enable voting? Is there the political will to get it done?

Copyright Andrew Duncan

Tom’s guest today is Jennifer Palmieri. She was the Communications Director for Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and the White House Communications Director for President Barack Obama. She is also a former national press secretary for the Democratic Party, the press secretary during John Edwards’ 2004 presidential campaign, and she served in the Clinton White House, as well.  Jennifer Palmieri is now the president of the Center for American Progress Action Fund.

Her new book is a reflection on Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, and a shout-out to the women who will do what Secretary Clinton was unable to do: break the glass ceiling at the White House. It’s called "Dear Madam President: An Open Letter to the Women Who Will Run the World." 

Photo by Mary Gardella

Norma Pera is a dancer and dance teacher who has trained generations of young dancers in Baltimore at the Baltimore School for the Arts, where she has led the dance department since 1992.

She joined BSA’s dance faculty in 1979, 39 years ago, when the innovative pre-professional public school for the arts first opened. Many of her students have gone on to illustrious careers in dance or the arts, and many other fields. She joins Tom in Studio A.

Ms. Pera is retiring this week from the School for the Arts. The school will celebrate her career and her legacy tomorrow afternoon, June 9, at 4 pm. For more information and to reserve tickets for that event, click here.

Johns Hopkins University

Before we begin today’s show, here’s a link that lists organizations that are helping people in Ellicott City with shelter, food and other humanitarian relief, following the severe flooding in that city’s historic downtown on Sunday – the second deadly flood in two years.

Today, it’s another edition of Midday on Ethics. We’re exploring some ethical questions pulled straight from the headlines. We begin with the ethics of organ transplantation, amid news of a medical breakthrough -- a transplant performed just weeks ago at Johns Hopkins Hospital here in Baltimore. For the first time, anywhere, doctors successfully performed a total penis and scrotum transplant on a service member who was injured in Afghanistan. Now that it’s possible to transplant a penis, or a uterus, what are the ethical issues that donors, recipients and transplant surgeons need to consider? Should we think about life-saving transplants like hearts and kidneys in the same way as non-lifesaving surgeries, the so-called quality-of-life transplants?

Plus, another news story caught our eye: California investigators used publicly available genetic information that was posted on an ancestry website to identify someone that they say is the Golden State Killer. He has been charged with murders police say he committed more than 30 years ago. Is your genetic information publicly available? Should it be, and if so, should it be more private than it is?

Dr. Jeffrey Kahn, the director of the Johns Hopkins Berman Institute of Bioethics, is Tom’s guest today in Studio A.  Dr. Kahn stops by from time to time to help us explore how ethicists frame these kinds of very complex questions.

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